I agree--you are definitely a writer with a strong voice and clear style I love. As another writer planning to start a Substack, I find your thoughts on the platform really helpful.
Thank you, Ochuko! I have a name finally-- Ghosts & The Body. I want to write about fashion and personal style through the lens of fiction, fairytale, art, and ancestral influence. I've been inhaling substack fashion and culture content while I finished a novel and now that it's done, I have all this stuff I want to write about. Now to carve out some time to do it!
"When all is said and done, here’s what you need to remember: Substack doesn’t care if your writing is basic/shit/original, as long as there are people willing to pay for it." -That part.
I don't know that Plum meant people can't improve at writing/maintaining a newsletter. She most likely meant that people won't. Writing and publishing pieces every week, every other week, takes immense stamina. You've got to LOVE it. Those who feel neutral about it won't make it past year 2. The prominent creators/influencers from different platforms will likely have someone else write for them. I'm with you. I'm interested in seeing where the writing style goes, and I'm ecstatic there is a place to go online that doesn't involve TikTok or Instagram reels.
Agree with you actually. It’s possible that’s exactly what she meant. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of ghost writers on substack. That feels so weird! And the you’ve got to LOVE it part goes hard. Writing is hard !!
Hard but so much fun! 💥so glad you’re writing here, Ochuko. And the weirdest (ghostwriters). I've seen some celebrities join Substack, and unless they are deeply in love with writing, they will not be able to keep up with the labor involved.
like! i read that ghost writing line and thought “that’s just sick to have ghost writers write for your substack”
but then again having written some newsletter essays for a business coach in the past, i’m aware this can become a possibility. Actually, ochuko, i think you might be a target for someone to hire you to help them write on substack and i have a feeling you’ll need to charge high enough because you’ve come to know the power the platform has.
I’m a lawyer and I like to write creative nonfiction- I have been hesitant to call myself a writer even after being on substack for a year! I did not publish every week because I got burnt out on my day job after the average of 12 weeks but I came back again regularly about 8 weeks ago and joined some new writing groups for motivation. I love the work of those with a journalism background but I see great writing across many of the smaller subs as well. I love your voice and I think more of us should own our identity as writers. My sister recently commented to me- “You’re definitely a writer, you’re just not a published author..yet.” But I am a big believer in substack helping you improve in public and I think notes are fun too.
But an actual comment - I once heard that 5% of TikTok users are creators with the vast 95% being viewers only. I wonder what that breakdown is like here, and what the opinions of the readers-only crowd on all of the updates are
Fantastic question. I think a lot of people who are active on the app are other writers. Which is why you could see really big substack with low engagement because they’re readers are mostly probably not in the app
I wonder this too! I’m sure it’s close to that 95/5 ratio when you consider all the people who are subscribed to Substacks via email (especially given all the substacks with imported email lists), but as far as people who actually use the app/website, I would guess it’s not as large a divide. But there’s always pushback to change. Not to age myself, lol, but I remember when Instagram stories came out and everyone thought they were dumb for 2 months until everyone started using and viewing them, and now they’re viewed more than posts
That’s funny about Instagram stories 😂. But from the kind of content I see on notes, it seems like a lot of people who use the app as social media are other writers. None of my friends who subscribe to a bunch of substacks use the app regularly
The writers that are using Notes are using it to get their names out there so other readers/writers can see them and look at what they have to offer. The whole idea of the Notes and Comments is that you can build a following if you're not an asshat, and you have something interesting that people want to read. (Not that I ever do, but sometimes I just can't help myself.)
I remember when I started using insta stories- it was like January 2018 and I sense I was late to the game but now all these years later I enjoy looking back at the archive.
Love this question on the opinion of the readers-only crowd! I’ve been a Substack reader for over five years now - I can’t remember the first newsletter I signed up to, but i’m pretty sure it was Maybe Baby that got me on the app (I read via the app now on my phone and iPad rather than newsletters to my Gmail). For context, I’m an elder-millennial but Ochuko’s is the first newsletter I’ve regularly started commenting on (because her writing is that good). I definitely view the Notes feed for consumption only like TikTok - I wouldn’t consider posting any thoughts there myself as a reader. I’m a bit bored by everyone freaking out about Substack as a platform changing, tbh. It still remains the app I come to read, but Haley’s Dear Danny podcast happens to be my favourite, and I’m still bummed out that I missed Cup of Jo go live with Long Live a little while ago. I’m pretty discerning with who I follow, and am also quick to unfollow for whatever reason. For example, I think Feed Me is a very good newsletter, but I unfollowed because I was in the camp of readers who felt like that commentary on Substack-writing-quality was in fact punching down, and that’s not my cup of tea. I also unfollowed Sophia Amoruso right away when I saw that her first article was for paid subscribers only. (There needs to be some tact with that, imo.) I have other thoughts, but that’s enough for now, lol.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I’m glad you like my work enough to comment! I’m pretty go with the flow about how the app is changing as well. But I think the panic is natural and things will eventually settle back down. The great thing about substack is that the app experience is so easy to curate you know? So I’m quite happy with mine and always remind people they can take steps to curate as they see fit
I've oft-wondered this too. I feel like Notes is filled with creators/writers/Substackers versus consumers. I also come across a lot of people who don't totally know what Substack is and if they do, it's because they receive someone's content in their inbox, not necessarily because they use the platform. I used audio for the first time last week on a newsletter and a friend noted (unprompted) afterwards that they liked that because they like listening, but not reading. Entirely subjective with my focus group of one, but it'll be interesting to see how the platform evolves from dual perspectives.
Last I read, there's around 17,000 Substack newsletters, across which there are a couple of million subscribers - I think that's the paying sub numbers, so add in another few million free subscribers?
As a fiction writer, I started reading my work out and offering the print version below for those who don't want to listen. I wasn't going to, but one of the comments said they liked to read along, and another said they liked to listen because they had a hard time reading as their eyesight was getting worse. It's more like six of one and half a dozen of the other.😆
That’s a good point from an accessibility standpoint. I know people who feel a bit insecure about their reading comprehension as well so audio makes it more accessible that was as well. Also, think about all the people who enjoy listening to audiobooks as their form of reading.
Ochuko, I just wanted to say that I love you as a writer/content creator/substacker or whatever you want to be (I feel like you can do anything in my pov). I genuinely LOVE you.
Thank you for this, and thank you for bringing relevant content to the Substack table every single time. It’s such a joy to read your posts. We need your voice on this app, regardless of any labels lol 🥹💓
Ochuko these mini essays are giving me life!! I too started 'Substacking' in May with no formal writing experience - I'm an anaesthesiologist by background who literally writes to process my life and career. I must say it's weird seeing the platform evolve even in this short time frame. I may be guilty of an eye roll when I see yet another fashion influencer trying to flog affiliated items on this platform but I try to take a deep breath and carry on.
Omg thank you! We’re substack birthday mates lol. Haha a deep breath always does the trick. I think the reason I’m less bothered about that stuff is because I’ve done a good job of curating my feed and inbox to give me what I need you know? Also cool that you’re an aesthetician !
You are such a good writer! That mini essay was spot on for me.
And honestly this mirrors writing in general. ‘Serious’ writers sniff their noses at romance writers like Elin Hilderbrand or mystery novels like Jeffrey Deaver or even horror novels like Stephen King. But these writers have millions of fans and made a very good living selling many many books. I love me a Booker prize winner but I’m also a huge fan of all three writers. We all contain multitudes 🤷🏻♀️ Substack would be better off if writers / creators focused on honing their craft vs trying to gatekeep or tell others if their writing is good enough!
Thank you Xue! And I love that analogy! I was thinking about it a while ago as a book nerd myself! Fully how in publishing it’s almost like prestige vs $$$ and only a few authors do both
Yes! And the world (and Substack) is big enough for folks to find their own niche or build their own worlds without getting upset at others. I feel like people will naturally find their own tribe. Like even on TikTok—the people getting booktok vs cottage core vs pottery content are probably happily in their own bubbles. (This is all conjecture as I do not have TikTok…)
But seriously your writing is amazing. So incisive, nuanced and such a pleasure to read. I’m grateful you’re sharing your gift with the world.
i’m so grateful I get to share it too. honestly feels like a dream. and I totally agree that substack Is big enough for a lot of different kinds of creative expression. I personally feel pretty positive about all of it
Must be a subset this person is finding because everyone I'm routinely in contact with on here identify as writers or readers or both. I haven't come across a single person that identifies as a "Substacker". Substack as a community name maybe, but not as an identification for what they do. I don't "substack". I write and publish my writing on Substack.
Ochuko, it's great to see you continue to spread your wings and write these longer essays, especially after watching your podcast with Ben, which I thoroughly enjoyed (especially the format, where you guys worked your way through bullet points like a Substack back and forth in podcast form).
This sentence really stood out to me: *Substack the business is evolving, and Substack the platform is facing an identity crisis*. Personally, I am more about the long form writing, cultural analysis, and deep dives into specific niches (literary fiction, sports, etc) and less about all the other bells and whistles, but maybe I'm in the minority as Substack keeps growing.
(small note about the pod with Ben: the sound seemed a bit choppy in places, didn't know if that was a tech issue on Ben's side, but even with that, it looks like you a future in video ahead of you, you're a natural on camera)
You’re too kind! Was so nervous recording that so it’s nice to see it turned out well, technical issues aside 😂. Honestly would love a podcast some day! I also love the long form content and trends stuff a lot here. I haven’t done myself engaging as much with the more social media stuff apart from notes which I actually really enjoy
I'm still unsure as to what will happen with the bells and whistles they keep putting out.
There's something to be said about the need to evolve as a business and distancing yourself from your core audience (long form writers) the jury is still out on this
1. If you write, you are a writer. If you get paid to write, you are a professional writer, but that doesn't make you any more worthy than those who just write.
2. Loved the Alex Cooper take, and it's really interesting how (like Kamala leaning in to glock ownership) Cooper is clearly hedging her bets by referencing Trump's invitation to the pod.
My first impression after joining Substack at the start of the summer was that the personal style blogs ruled the roost. I seemed to get this kind of content suggested to me heavily in the early days. I still wonder how the algorithm works exactly. Really enjoyed your reflections on how the platform is changing, it will be interesting to see where this goes 😎
Funny like I subscribe to a few but not a lot and I actually don’t get a lot of that content. I get a lot of person essay content. Would also love to understand the algorithm more
An interesting take! I've been publishing on Substack for just over a year and I tend to see it as LiveJournal for grownups. But I also know writers who started here believing they were going to grow their own publication brand, and a number of those have departed for Ghost or Beehiiv. Many of them came with their followers from other online writing ventures and were disappointed/repelled that Substack was trying to be a social network.
I've never felt that I'm not a "real" writer. I think that Substack, like LiveJournal (well, LJ c. 2010) or YouTube, can support lots of channels side by side without conflict. I'm not interested in charging for my newsletter at the moment, because I'm not putting a lot of research effort into it and I'm not publishing anything really personal that I would want behind a paywall, but that could change. I like Substack because it's easy to use, it's free and the network effect has been useful to me, but that could change too.
I'm relatively new to Substack but I don't identify as a writer or creator (maybe some fine day in the future..).
I'm here because it's a safe space for me to express myself and build a community around my writing. I think there has been an influx of others like me, ones who are dabbling in writing or seeking an outlet to share. I'll never claim that my work is stellar or anywhere near the level that the more experienced would expect, I'm just here to write and have fun really!
Also, you're killing it with the voicey prose, I feel like I'm listening to you speak in words.
Being late to Substack but around for the Wordpress blogging days, with a journalism degree earned while mostly being stoned — I’m still not sure if I even call myself a serious writer. But I’m glad to be here.
Yesterday was first time I ever heard of the podcast call your daddy as say clips of the interview with the VP on Instagram. But then again I’m not American so maybe that’s why I never heard of that podcaster before but I can’t say I’m even curious to check out that podcast now haha
Sorry pal you’re a writer. Even if you don’t identify as one you write like a dream so that makes you… A WRITER ✍🏻
okay maybe im a writer 🥹😂
I second this!
I agree--you are definitely a writer with a strong voice and clear style I love. As another writer planning to start a Substack, I find your thoughts on the platform really helpful.
Thank you Michelle! Goodluck with starting your substack. What will you be writing about?
Thank you, Ochuko! I have a name finally-- Ghosts & The Body. I want to write about fashion and personal style through the lens of fiction, fairytale, art, and ancestral influence. I've been inhaling substack fashion and culture content while I finished a novel and now that it's done, I have all this stuff I want to write about. Now to carve out some time to do it!
Thank you :)
I agree.
Came here to say exactly this!
"When all is said and done, here’s what you need to remember: Substack doesn’t care if your writing is basic/shit/original, as long as there are people willing to pay for it." -That part.
I don't know that Plum meant people can't improve at writing/maintaining a newsletter. She most likely meant that people won't. Writing and publishing pieces every week, every other week, takes immense stamina. You've got to LOVE it. Those who feel neutral about it won't make it past year 2. The prominent creators/influencers from different platforms will likely have someone else write for them. I'm with you. I'm interested in seeing where the writing style goes, and I'm ecstatic there is a place to go online that doesn't involve TikTok or Instagram reels.
Agree with you actually. It’s possible that’s exactly what she meant. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of ghost writers on substack. That feels so weird! And the you’ve got to LOVE it part goes hard. Writing is hard !!
Hard but so much fun! 💥so glad you’re writing here, Ochuko. And the weirdest (ghostwriters). I've seen some celebrities join Substack, and unless they are deeply in love with writing, they will not be able to keep up with the labor involved.
have to agree w that
like! i read that ghost writing line and thought “that’s just sick to have ghost writers write for your substack”
but then again having written some newsletter essays for a business coach in the past, i’m aware this can become a possibility. Actually, ochuko, i think you might be a target for someone to hire you to help them write on substack and i have a feeling you’ll need to charge high enough because you’ve come to know the power the platform has.
I’m a lawyer and I like to write creative nonfiction- I have been hesitant to call myself a writer even after being on substack for a year! I did not publish every week because I got burnt out on my day job after the average of 12 weeks but I came back again regularly about 8 weeks ago and joined some new writing groups for motivation. I love the work of those with a journalism background but I see great writing across many of the smaller subs as well. I love your voice and I think more of us should own our identity as writers. My sister recently commented to me- “You’re definitely a writer, you’re just not a published author..yet.” But I am a big believer in substack helping you improve in public and I think notes are fun too.
But an actual comment - I once heard that 5% of TikTok users are creators with the vast 95% being viewers only. I wonder what that breakdown is like here, and what the opinions of the readers-only crowd on all of the updates are
Fantastic question. I think a lot of people who are active on the app are other writers. Which is why you could see really big substack with low engagement because they’re readers are mostly probably not in the app
Might also need to breakdown readers who read via email vs app/desktop
I wonder this too! I’m sure it’s close to that 95/5 ratio when you consider all the people who are subscribed to Substacks via email (especially given all the substacks with imported email lists), but as far as people who actually use the app/website, I would guess it’s not as large a divide. But there’s always pushback to change. Not to age myself, lol, but I remember when Instagram stories came out and everyone thought they were dumb for 2 months until everyone started using and viewing them, and now they’re viewed more than posts
That’s funny about Instagram stories 😂. But from the kind of content I see on notes, it seems like a lot of people who use the app as social media are other writers. None of my friends who subscribe to a bunch of substacks use the app regularly
The writers that are using Notes are using it to get their names out there so other readers/writers can see them and look at what they have to offer. The whole idea of the Notes and Comments is that you can build a following if you're not an asshat, and you have something interesting that people want to read. (Not that I ever do, but sometimes I just can't help myself.)
I remember when I started using insta stories- it was like January 2018 and I sense I was late to the game but now all these years later I enjoy looking back at the archive.
Love this question on the opinion of the readers-only crowd! I’ve been a Substack reader for over five years now - I can’t remember the first newsletter I signed up to, but i’m pretty sure it was Maybe Baby that got me on the app (I read via the app now on my phone and iPad rather than newsletters to my Gmail). For context, I’m an elder-millennial but Ochuko’s is the first newsletter I’ve regularly started commenting on (because her writing is that good). I definitely view the Notes feed for consumption only like TikTok - I wouldn’t consider posting any thoughts there myself as a reader. I’m a bit bored by everyone freaking out about Substack as a platform changing, tbh. It still remains the app I come to read, but Haley’s Dear Danny podcast happens to be my favourite, and I’m still bummed out that I missed Cup of Jo go live with Long Live a little while ago. I’m pretty discerning with who I follow, and am also quick to unfollow for whatever reason. For example, I think Feed Me is a very good newsletter, but I unfollowed because I was in the camp of readers who felt like that commentary on Substack-writing-quality was in fact punching down, and that’s not my cup of tea. I also unfollowed Sophia Amoruso right away when I saw that her first article was for paid subscribers only. (There needs to be some tact with that, imo.) I have other thoughts, but that’s enough for now, lol.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I’m glad you like my work enough to comment! I’m pretty go with the flow about how the app is changing as well. But I think the panic is natural and things will eventually settle back down. The great thing about substack is that the app experience is so easy to curate you know? So I’m quite happy with mine and always remind people they can take steps to curate as they see fit
I've oft-wondered this too. I feel like Notes is filled with creators/writers/Substackers versus consumers. I also come across a lot of people who don't totally know what Substack is and if they do, it's because they receive someone's content in their inbox, not necessarily because they use the platform. I used audio for the first time last week on a newsletter and a friend noted (unprompted) afterwards that they liked that because they like listening, but not reading. Entirely subjective with my focus group of one, but it'll be interesting to see how the platform evolves from dual perspectives.
Okay no offense to your friend but that would annoy me lol. And agree, less consumers more creators on here
Last I read, there's around 17,000 Substack newsletters, across which there are a couple of million subscribers - I think that's the paying sub numbers, so add in another few million free subscribers?
As a fiction writer, I started reading my work out and offering the print version below for those who don't want to listen. I wasn't going to, but one of the comments said they liked to read along, and another said they liked to listen because they had a hard time reading as their eyesight was getting worse. It's more like six of one and half a dozen of the other.😆
That’s a good point from an accessibility standpoint. I know people who feel a bit insecure about their reading comprehension as well so audio makes it more accessible that was as well. Also, think about all the people who enjoy listening to audiobooks as their form of reading.
Audio is the growth area, including on Substack. It's how people still get to enjoy edifying writing or podcasts while doing other things.
Yes, that's exactly it! The opportunity to listen in to your favorite subs while multi-tasking.
Ochuko, I just wanted to say that I love you as a writer/content creator/substacker or whatever you want to be (I feel like you can do anything in my pov). I genuinely LOVE you.
Thank you for this, and thank you for bringing relevant content to the Substack table every single time. It’s such a joy to read your posts. We need your voice on this app, regardless of any labels lol 🥹💓
Aww Amanda thank you thank thank you! Don’t worry girl I’m not going anywhere 😜
i’m trying to do away with the labels😫
Haha they’re fun!!
they lied to us 😫
Your writing is medicinal to me
XO
Ochuko these mini essays are giving me life!! I too started 'Substacking' in May with no formal writing experience - I'm an anaesthesiologist by background who literally writes to process my life and career. I must say it's weird seeing the platform evolve even in this short time frame. I may be guilty of an eye roll when I see yet another fashion influencer trying to flog affiliated items on this platform but I try to take a deep breath and carry on.
Omg thank you! We’re substack birthday mates lol. Haha a deep breath always does the trick. I think the reason I’m less bothered about that stuff is because I’ve done a good job of curating my feed and inbox to give me what I need you know? Also cool that you’re an aesthetician !
You are such a good writer! That mini essay was spot on for me.
And honestly this mirrors writing in general. ‘Serious’ writers sniff their noses at romance writers like Elin Hilderbrand or mystery novels like Jeffrey Deaver or even horror novels like Stephen King. But these writers have millions of fans and made a very good living selling many many books. I love me a Booker prize winner but I’m also a huge fan of all three writers. We all contain multitudes 🤷🏻♀️ Substack would be better off if writers / creators focused on honing their craft vs trying to gatekeep or tell others if their writing is good enough!
Thank you Xue! And I love that analogy! I was thinking about it a while ago as a book nerd myself! Fully how in publishing it’s almost like prestige vs $$$ and only a few authors do both
Yes! And the world (and Substack) is big enough for folks to find their own niche or build their own worlds without getting upset at others. I feel like people will naturally find their own tribe. Like even on TikTok—the people getting booktok vs cottage core vs pottery content are probably happily in their own bubbles. (This is all conjecture as I do not have TikTok…)
But seriously your writing is amazing. So incisive, nuanced and such a pleasure to read. I’m grateful you’re sharing your gift with the world.
i’m so grateful I get to share it too. honestly feels like a dream. and I totally agree that substack Is big enough for a lot of different kinds of creative expression. I personally feel pretty positive about all of it
Must be a subset this person is finding because everyone I'm routinely in contact with on here identify as writers or readers or both. I haven't come across a single person that identifies as a "Substacker". Substack as a community name maybe, but not as an identification for what they do. I don't "substack". I write and publish my writing on Substack.
Ochuko, it's great to see you continue to spread your wings and write these longer essays, especially after watching your podcast with Ben, which I thoroughly enjoyed (especially the format, where you guys worked your way through bullet points like a Substack back and forth in podcast form).
This sentence really stood out to me: *Substack the business is evolving, and Substack the platform is facing an identity crisis*. Personally, I am more about the long form writing, cultural analysis, and deep dives into specific niches (literary fiction, sports, etc) and less about all the other bells and whistles, but maybe I'm in the minority as Substack keeps growing.
(small note about the pod with Ben: the sound seemed a bit choppy in places, didn't know if that was a tech issue on Ben's side, but even with that, it looks like you a future in video ahead of you, you're a natural on camera)
You’re too kind! Was so nervous recording that so it’s nice to see it turned out well, technical issues aside 😂. Honestly would love a podcast some day! I also love the long form content and trends stuff a lot here. I haven’t done myself engaging as much with the more social media stuff apart from notes which I actually really enjoy
I'm still unsure as to what will happen with the bells and whistles they keep putting out.
There's something to be said about the need to evolve as a business and distancing yourself from your core audience (long form writers) the jury is still out on this
Yeah from a business perspective I totally understand it. I think we’ll have to just wait and see 🤷🏾♀️
1. If you write, you are a writer. If you get paid to write, you are a professional writer, but that doesn't make you any more worthy than those who just write.
2. Loved the Alex Cooper take, and it's really interesting how (like Kamala leaning in to glock ownership) Cooper is clearly hedging her bets by referencing Trump's invitation to the pod.
1. AGREED
2. lol not the glock ownership. yeah really didnt see that one coming. agreed on the hedging her best thing
My first impression after joining Substack at the start of the summer was that the personal style blogs ruled the roost. I seemed to get this kind of content suggested to me heavily in the early days. I still wonder how the algorithm works exactly. Really enjoyed your reflections on how the platform is changing, it will be interesting to see where this goes 😎
Funny like I subscribe to a few but not a lot and I actually don’t get a lot of that content. I get a lot of person essay content. Would also love to understand the algorithm more
An interesting take! I've been publishing on Substack for just over a year and I tend to see it as LiveJournal for grownups. But I also know writers who started here believing they were going to grow their own publication brand, and a number of those have departed for Ghost or Beehiiv. Many of them came with their followers from other online writing ventures and were disappointed/repelled that Substack was trying to be a social network.
I've never felt that I'm not a "real" writer. I think that Substack, like LiveJournal (well, LJ c. 2010) or YouTube, can support lots of channels side by side without conflict. I'm not interested in charging for my newsletter at the moment, because I'm not putting a lot of research effort into it and I'm not publishing anything really personal that I would want behind a paywall, but that could change. I like Substack because it's easy to use, it's free and the network effect has been useful to me, but that could change too.
Agree. Enjoy substack for the same reasons. Why do you think ppl are moving to Beehiv or ghost?
Now this was a damn article 🙌
I'm relatively new to Substack but I don't identify as a writer or creator (maybe some fine day in the future..).
I'm here because it's a safe space for me to express myself and build a community around my writing. I think there has been an influx of others like me, ones who are dabbling in writing or seeking an outlet to share. I'll never claim that my work is stellar or anywhere near the level that the more experienced would expect, I'm just here to write and have fun really!
Also, you're killing it with the voicey prose, I feel like I'm listening to you speak in words.
I feel like so many of us fall into that category. its a great place to be and I'm stoked you'e enjoying the prose :)
Being late to Substack but around for the Wordpress blogging days, with a journalism degree earned while mostly being stoned — I’m still not sure if I even call myself a serious writer. But I’m glad to be here.
Crying 😂😂😂 glad you’re here!
Yesterday was first time I ever heard of the podcast call your daddy as say clips of the interview with the VP on Instagram. But then again I’m not American so maybe that’s why I never heard of that podcaster before but I can’t say I’m even curious to check out that podcast now haha
Lmk what you think. Also my first time listening and also not American !
I’ll try haha! It’s very hard for me to listen to someone’s voice for longer than 5 minutes though haha
lol thats hilarious. not a podcast girl I see